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Author Topic: Opinions please....Ardour and Jamin configuration  (Read 557 times)
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RickBrock
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« on: April 10, 2012, 04:42:58 AM »

How would you use Jamin????

I've thought of 2 ways to use Jamin with Ardour.

Firstly the 'standard' (and easy) thought would be to create an entire work-of-art piece in Ardour. then connect the master Ardour ouput into Jamin then connect that to Jack Capture (and system out of course).....

OR

Connect all the outputs of individual Ardour channels into Jamin (can take quite some time using patchage) and then the output of Jamin back into the master of Ardour.

OR maybe you have a better idea?

Please let me know what you think....

thanks
Rick
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Collosians 3:23 - "Whether you eat, drink or whatever you do...(create music)... do it all for the glory of God"
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Happily Running AVlinux 5.0.3 on my HP G7000 laptop and AVL6 on my Del Dimension7550 and a HP Compaq dx2200 microtower.
linuxdsp
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2012, 11:14:19 AM »

Quote
How would you use Jamin????

Please use something else - Jamin got well known as a 'mastering' application 'by default' because there was nothing else around when it was first created.  However, according to tests I've done with it (and which others have too) it is fundamentally flawed.  It adds significant noise in the presence of signal (even with the strange 'hand drawn' EQ completely flat... more on that later) - so much so, that if the measurements are correct (and I have every reason to believe they are), it amounts to the same kind of quality (reduction) you would get by using an average 'on-board' input to record the audio.  So, its not really a good thing for a 'mastering' app to be doing (I have no problem with adding harmonics and or noise etc if that's what the plugin is designed to do e.g. as part of an emulation etc, but this is just a bug in the way Jamin does what it does)

*The hand drawn EQ - I simply don't see the point - use a multi-band such as my graphical EQ, in which you can 'tune' the EQ curve graphically, but within the confines of a normal set of filter responses, and you will get a much more natural result.  I've been fortunate enough to work with some very knowledgeable people in this industry and over a 20+ year career I don't think any of them ever said "You know, what I really need is an EQ in which I can sketch on an arbitarily un-natural filter response and add a lot of weird artefacts to my mix"

I've spent so much time and effort (and my own money) personally trying to build some proper plugins / processing for linux, that I find it unbelievable that people are still stuck with the "Ardour + Jamin" mantra, (one that sadly is often casually repeated by many linux audio 'review' articles if / when they are too lazy to research the subject properly)

I really think its time to move on from JAMIN - it was a reasonable attempt at lashing some very basic plugins together, but its hardly fit for purpose any more.




« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 11:16:31 AM by linuxdsp » Logged
GMaq
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2012, 11:46:50 AM »

Hi

+1 for what linuxDSP said!

I never use it personally and it's only in AV Linux because of the general perceived notion that it has to be there. When JAMin was created there were no other plugin formats other than LADSPA for Linux so of course since it bundled up several useful LADSPA's in a gtk interface it was very useful in it's time. With LV2 and linuxVST plugins in abundance now with numerous Sequencers and Hosts JAMin is now really quite deprecated.

Of course it's up to you the user and there's nothing wrong with using JAMin but certainly there are many better alternatives now.
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RickBrock
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 12:12:53 PM »

thanks linuxDSP and Gmaq



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Collosians 3:23 - "Whether you eat, drink or whatever you do...(create music)... do it all for the glory of God"
...........................
Happily Running AVlinux 5.0.3 on my HP G7000 laptop and AVL6 on my Del Dimension7550 and a HP Compaq dx2200 microtower.
linuxdsp
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 12:38:19 PM »

Can I also state - for the record.. Smile - that in my general comments about linux audio articles, I most definitely wasn't including any of the outstanding Linux Journal articles (by Dave Phillips), which without exception stand out as being both informative and very well researched - well worth a read - if only some of the more 'mainstream' audio publications were so thorough...
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varpa
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2012, 12:45:00 PM »

I cannot comment on the merits or not of Jamin, but I think the most straightforward way to use it with Ardour is an an insert on the master track.  This goes for any standalone program, non-plugin program like rakarrack or jkmeter.
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RickBrock
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2012, 04:18:50 PM »

Thanks for your time gentlemen.
I am very new at the whole linux/ardour/recording thing.... so i appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

I shall banish Jamin from my repertoire.... but i really like the graphical way it shows the knee, ratio, gain etc....

Does anything else show them?

Rick
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...........................
Collosians 3:23 - "Whether you eat, drink or whatever you do...(create music)... do it all for the glory of God"
...........................
Happily Running AVlinux 5.0.3 on my HP G7000 laptop and AVL6 on my Del Dimension7550 and a HP Compaq dx2200 microtower.
linuxdsp
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2012, 04:46:55 PM »

I think one of the 'Calf' plugins has graphical display of the dynamics settings
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varpa
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2012, 05:17:12 PM »

Also the Invada compressor has a graphical display.
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trulan
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2012, 05:46:28 PM »

...I guess in my ignorant bliss, I was using Jamin because I liked the layout, mostly the compressors.  I never got anything useful out of the EQ curve drawing, though I used the 31 band for a while.  It does tend to introduce artifacts.  I ended up buying LinuxDSP's MKII Graph EQ and have not regretted that decision.

Is there another graphical compressor/limiter setup that works well?  Calf Multiband Compressor looks really cool but sounds terrible, to me anyway.
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hsnlv
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 07:27:13 PM »

Not that it was the point of LinuxDSP's reply but I have to chime in as well:  Very good plugs.  Very good prices.
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