Yoshimi + USB MIDI Keyboard...how to connect?

[Smeefer]

I have an Axiom 49 usb keyboard and I want to connect it to Yoshimi so I can jam out. With Zynaddsubfx, I usually connect it by clicking Connect in qjackctl then ALSA and connect them. But Yoshimi is not in the ALSA connect panel of qjackctl. It's in the MIDI panel, but my Axiom 49 isn't. Is it impossible to play Yoshimi with an external controller?

[trulan]

You need to run a2jmidid (in the 'audio' menu).  That will make your Axiom show up in the midi tab, then you can connect them.

[totalchaos]

It is not logical to have midi interface in the "alsa" and not in the "midi". it's probably there but shown as "midi_capture_...".try connect any of the "midi_capture" ports with yoshimi. Another "hack" that i have used is to connect the Midi Keyboard to Midi Through and Midi through to the program

[trulan]

It is logical, even normal.  The Alsa tab in qjackctl is for alsa midi, the midi tab is for Jack midi.  Start a2jmidid, and it will  create a jack midi port for each alsa midi port, allowing you to connect an Alsa midi device (in this case, the Axiom) with a jack midi device such as Yoshimi.

[totalchaos]

@Trulan
I Thought that "Jack midi" and "Alsa midi" applied only for software not for hardware. If you are right than i guess that i am one of the lucky ones. 
I am using "Evolution MK-449" midi keyboard.

[varpa]

Yes, alsa/jack midi labels to apply to software, not hardware, per se.  It just that software handles the hardware.  If you plug a keyboard in with a USB cable the signals are handled with the alsa driver which uses alsa midi.  In contrast if you connect the same keyboard using a firewire device, which use the ffado drivers then the keyboard will use jack midi.  Software like Yoshimi can be written to use either or both alsa and jack midi.  Yoshimi happens to only use Jack midi (which is superior to alsa midi - less timing jitter).   Pianoteq, for example, can use either alsa or jack midi.

[trulan]

I have an old 49 key midi controller (it's so old, its internal midi interface has a gameport output - lol) that I can either hook up through my firepod's midi port, or through my Turtle Beach midi-to-USB adapter.  If I plug it in through the firepod, it shows up as Jack Midi; if I plug it in through the midi-to-USB adapter, it shows up as Alsa midi.  Now it doesn't exactly depend on the hardware, but it does depend on the driver being used for the hardware.  The firepod uses ffado, which will present midi devices as Jack Midi; most USB midi devices use alsa drivers, which typically present devices as Alsa Midi.  It's a confusing mess, I know...

Edit: varpa posted while I was typing...

[Grooveschmied]

I use to have a Roland PC 128 Midi Keyboard Controller. It is a stone age device even G00gle doesn't know. It has just one Midi out, a plug for sustain pedal and power supply. It will never shown neither in Jack nor any other software, but I can connect any synth with the midi in port and push a key and there is sound. It doesn't matter what software I use as long as it can grab the signal from the midi in port.

[doogy_64]

Hi @Smeefer. 

Other than the a2jmidid method, you can start Yoshimi so it uses alsa.  From the terminal screen, type

yoshimi -a -K

You should see Yoshimi sitting in the alsa tab of JackQtl. 

Like you, I often need to start Yosh like this, so I created two entries for Yoshimi in my wbar dock, one starts Yoshimi as per the normal AVL 5 (MIDI tab) method, the other starts yosh using the above command so it starts in the ALSA tab of JackQtl. That way, I can pick and choose and don't have to bring up a terminal screen etc.

[Smeefer]

Excellent! The a2jmidid method is working great for me. Thanks!

[varpa]

You can configure a2jmidid (or other programs) to be started automatically when QJackCtl starts Jack by putting entries in the  QJackCtl Options tab in the "execute script after startup" box.  For example, you can put "a2jmidid -e &" in that box to start a2jmidid whenever QJackCtl is started.  I also suggest putting "killall aj2midid" in the "execute script after shutdown" box to kill aj2midid when you turn jack off.
Incidentally the "-e" option of a2jmdid is to also route hardware alsa midi connections to jack midi.

[efflux]

Guys, It's reasons like this that Linux has no chance of being accepted. I know how all this works but it isn't plug and play so even for me, I can't be bothered. I use a Kurzweil keyboard now for digital synth and I have a bunch of analog synths. Switch on and play.

The insanity is that ZynAddSubFX is probably the best software synth there is out of any on any platform.

[trulan]

Guys, It's reasons like this that Linux has no chance of being accepted.

I hear ya.  And yet, three years ago when I started using Linux (it was Ubuntu Studio 9.04), just getting the blue light to turn on on my firepod was reason for much rejoicing - the hoops you had to jump through on a 'studio' distro just to use the thing were insane.  The progress that has been made in that area alone is astounding.

Regarding the two midi systems, it's as confusing as can be and will be a big enough barrier that a lot of people won't be able to fully make the switch to Linux.  And yet, the ALSA devs have created a good MIDI system that works on pretty much everything, and the JACK devs have created an even better, more precise MIDI system that works within the JACK server.  It would make no sense to insist that they don't do it, and that everyone be limited to the 'usually good enough' ALSA MIDI system.

I'm optimistic that things are moving in the right direction, but I'll readily agree that there is still a lot of room for improvement.

[linuxdsp]

Guys, It's reasons like this that Linux has no chance of being accepted

I completely agree - which, as a developer  - maybe the only developer - of commercial linux audio software and plugins, is a bit depressing.  As someone committed to linux audio, (and someone who has invested considerable time and money in it - for regrettably very little return so far - I genuinely believe that linux is a great platform for audio, but we need to get to a point where it 'just works'. For various reasons I spent a short time working with audio on Mac OS X recently (mainly because this has, commercially, been one of the most disappointing months I've ever seen - quite possibly for precisely these kind of reasons, though its hard to know exactly what is not working at the moment.. ), but I digress..  The contrast was stark.  No fancy configuration required, no glitches, no audio drop-outs, perfectly acceptable latency, no realtime-kernel gymnastics required, it really does just work.  The tradeoff is that a linux audio system is far cheaper, and you can configure it more, but I really don't see why it should almost be 'mandatory' to have to tweak the setup continuously just to make things work.
Sometimes I could believe we are actually in a worse situation regarding the driver / kernel / application / plugin stack etc than when I started developing for linux a few years ago.  I recently encountered some ridiculous video card driver hocus-pocus just to get the latest Ardour and a few (free) plugins to work - come on, this is audio, it shouldn't be necessary to have to fiddle with video drivers or only buy a particular chipset to get a DAW to work - but this is the kind of direction we are heading in despite the incredible achievements of distros like AVlinux in making much of the process a great deal easier than it used to be.

[Grooveschmied]

I think artists shouldn't wait for developers to build the tools they needed. They should learn how things are working to become able to tweak their tools to make unique artwork. A good example for this might be Aphex Twin, even I'm not a fan of all of his work. On the other hand (more) developers should become creative to get a clue, what artists need and why. I'm sure there will be tools that will meet the needs of both artists and programmers, but they should (have to?) approach one another.
Here is a not so new but (in my humble opinion) well written article about the problem and its arguments aren't limited to configuration issues.
http://archive.icommons.org/articles/why-dont-artists-use-open-source-software

[linuxdsp]

On the other hand (more) developers should become creative to get a clue, what artists need and why

I agree - having been a guitar player for over 20 years, as well as a software / hardware developer, (and prior to developing my own software, having spent many years as a design engineer for one of the world's top pro-audio companies, where I was fortunate enough to work with people who I consider some of the most knowledgeable in the audio business). I hope that means I have an insight that people will value... But enough about me..
My main motivation as a developer was / is to create the tools I needed as a musician (and I hoped others would find them useful).  And as a linux user as well as a developer I would very much like to see linux become more accessable to all musicians,  not just those who have a deep understanding of the technology (or a desire to learn about it).  Its great to use the tools in new and interesting ways (and developers can learn from this) but nothing kills creativity more than having to stop and figure out why jack is causing problems or some software doesn't work or a MIDI interface won't connect or an audio or video card driver is incompatible or a plugin crashes etc etc.

[efflux]

I don't know what the situation is with Yoshimi on AVLinux. I don't actually use AVLinux but I regard it as the distribution for most people to use if they do audio. Last time I wanted to use Yoshimi (I think it was Debian) I had to compile it to get alsa MIDI. My interface connects via alsa.

Sadly, the guy who developed Yoshimi has passed away but why do we have Yoshimi anyway? Why can't they sort ZynAddSubFX properly for Jack?

Even if AVLinux is good, the rest of Linux is a disaster area at the moment. Whole architectures stripped out and replaced before they are really ready. Endless forks of forks including distributions. New disastrous desktops as well. Gnome 3 and Ubuntu Unity are fine for a touchscreen but aren't that good for desktop work machines. It seems that nobody can agree and there is a lot of terrible arrogance going on. I've noticed that users opinions are often completely ignored with the development of some apps now. It seems this is in fact now a downside of the fact that money isn't being made by selling licenses.

Talking of desktops. We now have only one simple and straightforward desktop which is xfce. LXDE is also OK but a but stripped down for most everyday use. I tried KDE recently. What a buggy disaster area. This situation hands Apple and MS sales on a plate.

There should be little or no competition on Linux. There is no need to have numerous apps or systems of various sorts that do the same thing. This is wasted effort. For example, ZynAddSubFX is so good that it's the only synth we'd need (if it worked right).

I've actually moved to Arch Linux now which allows me to set up my system the way I want but this is obviously no good for average computer users.

I find it hard to recommend Linux now. I was doing this and had many people using it. Now I just tell them to get a Mac, if they can afford it. There are things I don't like about my Mac but one thing is for sure, it works flawlessly ALL the time. Windows 7 is actually not even that bad apart from the fact that it will have the usual net security problems. The fact that I need my Macbook to have a constantly reliable computer says it all.

However, I do use Ardour on Linux and will be continuing with that because it's simple and efficient compared to other options. I've tended not to use any plugins though. I just use Ardour as a multracker. The rest of my gear is outboard now. I will eventually use eqs and compressors in Ardour, it's just that I've never got around to any mixing yet where I'll probably use something like Linuxdsp.

[efflux]

I read that article called "Why don't artists use open source software?"

It's probably a bit out of date now but I think the current problems of Linux are different from what is explained there. My problems here are rarely with the final layer of the app that I'm using. It's nearly always other problems in the system like hardware integration for example. I do graphics, sometimes 3D so I need the nvidia graphics driver to work. That was one reason I moved to Arch (nvidia drivers are always there in the repo and up to date). Another reason is that Arch is a rolling release so I can be using a recent development version of an app without suddenly coming to a dead end when the life of the distribution version runs out and everything gets out of date - only after it's all finally stable. Then I'd have to upgrade to an unstable release with all the new problems that kill my workflow.

Just one example of the nightmare of Linux in general for any new user. I've got Linux on one drive, Windows 7 on another. I have a third drive to use for sharing between these. It's formatted to Fat32. Try setting that absolute nightmare up to have all the correct permissions to access the files from Linux. No new user would ever bother with this.

[efflux]

Just when you think everything is working and under control get ready for things like this coming your way soon. This is now in Arch:

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/

[linuxdsp]

@efflux: Regrettably I find myself agreeing with alot of what is being said about the (disappointing) state of linux at the moment - which makes it all the more fortunate that we (still) have distros such as AVLinux to pull it all together and make sense of some of the chaos. And I would urge everyone who uses AVLinux to support it financially.

As a commercial developer myself, and one of the very few prepared (some would say foolishly) to take the considerable risk involved in developing and supporting audio applications for an operating system which can be so volatile, it's also disappointing that when I / we do bring considerable expertise and create products comparable with those on more mainstream platforms they fail to generate the interest required to make a convincing case for greater investment.

A case in point (and I make no apology for mentioning it again) is our Pultec EQ - which required considerable investment both in time and money, but which, given that these products are such an essential part of DAWs on other platforms and professional studios, seemed a safe bet (and something linux audio was sorely missing).

The reality has been that those who have used it rate it very highly - whatever kind of music they create - but it's also true that there's a considerable number of users we haven't been able to reach.

It is possible to set up a great professional DAW using (AV)linux - but unless people support the initiatives being taken (often at considerable personal expense) by a few talented people, linux audio will never reach its full potential, which would be a great opportunity wasted.

[soppel]

quote 1:
I have an Axiom 49 usb keyboard and I want to connect it to Yoshimi so I can jam out. With Zynaddsubfx, I usually connect it by clicking Connect in qjackctl then ALSA and connect them. But Yoshimi is not in the ALSA connect panel of qjackctl. It's in the MIDI panel, but my Axiom 49 isn't. Is it impossible to play Yoshimi with an external controller?
end of quote 1

quote 2 ( first reaction at the problem)
You need to run a2jmidid (in the 'audio' menu).  That will make your Axiom show up in the midi tab, then you can connect them.
end of quote 2

quote 3
Excellent! The a2jmidid method is working great for me. Thanks!
end of quote 3


So I don't understand the whole discussion about the problems in Linux. Maybe there are some un-perfect things, but the guys and girls that are working on it, do a lot of great work. I thank them all for their time and energy!
I switched from MS to Ubuntu, tried some other distro's And AVLinux works great for me now. But with all the switching and installing I had less problems than using the MS systems. Virusscanners, searching for license numbers, looking for CD's missing DLL's and on and on and on. Oh and don't forget expensive program's that did not work after an update from windows.
No, maybe Linux is not perfect but I am not perfect either. And it seems that there are a lot of other people are not perfect. But why mentioning it all the time?
MS says it is perfect, but it isn't either.

Again: Smeefer had a problem. Trulan give the a2jmidid thing which is part of AVlinux. and Smeefer was happy! So Linux is good enough.

[Grooveschmied]

@soppel: high five

[Smeefer]

"Smeefer had a problem. Trulan give the a2jmidid thing which is part of AVlinux. and Smeefer was happy! So Linux is good enough."

@soppel

That's right, my problem has been solved because I can now use Yoshimi - i had an easy problem to solve and just needed a little info on how to do it. That's another good thing about linux - people are online helping each other out and engaging in discussion. That's what linux systems and apps should always be - open for discussion. The more we discuss things, the better things will become. Disagreements are great too - especially when they give rise to solutions that benefit/satisfy BOTH sides (if possible hah).

@efflux

Another thing I love about linux is that there is so much diversity, disagreement, etc and that's why there are so many different types of linux. I finally installed AV Linux and pretty happy with it - some things can improve but it's really great and i haven't booted up ubuntu in weeks because of that. And that's the thing, i've been using Ubuntu for years. I get sick of NEEDING to reconfigure a bunch of stuff for low latency audio production in ubuntu. Once 12.04 LTS came out, i was getting pelting with xruns like crazy. I tried to disable pulseaudio and then i had no audio for anything and couldn't figure out how to retreat. Luckily enough, i had already installed this AVLinux and my Ubuntu problems were enough to trigger a full conversion. Through the years, i went from ubuntu studio to ubuntu and now avlinux. Can't do that in the world of commercial closed source operating systems, right? Lack of unity can also make sure that so many different peoples needs are being recognized and working towards fulfilling. I'm not a developer, i'm just a music-making, film-making, art-making creative hobbyist and i love linux and open source software based on principle.

PS - Yoshimi and Zynaddsubfx are the best synths out there. Making sounds with these synths is like making shapes with clay. On most closed source synths, its like making shapes with a hammer and a rock. You know? There's so much you can do. If you try, you can make any sound you want with Yosh and subfx.

[trulan]

If all users wanting to do audio on Linux would buy hardware from a selection as limited and controlled as what is used in Macs (not to mention use the exact same OS, desktop environment, and software), you'd be amazed at how Linux would 'just work'.  (sorry, I couldn't resist saying it...)

Honestly I have not succeeded in getting many of my friends to switch to Linux.  I know what would happen - I'd be the only guy around who would know how to fix their computer.  Now, I can just say, "Man, it's been so long since I've used Windows, I don't remember how to do that anymore... - LOL

[soppel]

@soppel

That's right, my problem has been solved because I can now use Yoshimi - i had an easy problem to solve and just needed a little info on how to do it. That's another good thing about linux - people are online helping each other out and engaging in discussion. That's what linux systems and apps should always be - open for discussion. The more we discuss things, the better things will become. Disagreements are great too - especially when they give rise to solutions that benefit/satisfy BOTH sides (if possible hah).

FIRST OF ALL: I mean nothing personal here!

Yes it is good to have discussions to make Linux better but ( in this case (and this case is just an example) ) was the subject how to connect Yoshimi and an USB keyboard. This problem was solved and after that somebody start a discussion why Linux not will be excepted.
I am not against off topic postings, but we ( linux users/promoters) have to keep in mind that EVERYBODY can read a topic.
If people who are in doubt to switch over use google they can find this topic. It will help them to take the step when they read a problem is solved so quick. But if they read the whole discussion after a solved problem, they stay at their own mac/windows machine.
So, it is good to discuss Linux, but -in my opinion- it is not smart to start this discussion after a solved problem.

Again, nothing is personal, and it is something that happens often in the Linux-scene. It is good to be critical, also to Linux, but -again my opinion- we have to take care that we don't scare people.

The biggest problem is now, that I am part of this discussion at the wrong place 

[efflux]

I know there are people here making a concerted effort to sort stuff on Linux and I have been using Linux for a long time but I'm being forced off the Platform almost completely so what chance have new users got?

The reason this thread sparked me off is because it's maddening that we have that awesome synth but average music users aren't going to touch it if they have to start messing with this MIDI routing.

I financially support the Ardour project but it's one of two major multimedia apps left on Linux that are viable. Blender being the other. Gimp now has pretty much no chance against Photoshop. There are a bunch of problems with 2.8 as if development has almost been ditched but then everyone seems to be flooding over to Krita which has even less chance. Loads of constant moaners on the Gimp mailing list slating the developers. Who would want to develop the app? Unfortunately there is a lot stupidity, laziness to learn/find out about things and lack of commitment to financially support anything. Lightzone was the greatest photo editing app and there was a Linux version. Lighcrafts are no more. Photo editing on Linux is now greatly empoversihed due to that. People just lazily use what everyone else uses and many just use pirated stuff even if it's the worst app. This is the problem with computer software. It always ends up lowest common denominator. As far as I'm concerned Linux has lowered itself to below windows 7 with all the recent mess ups. If only we were using BEOS instead of Linux, OSX or Windows. That operating system was vastly superior. We'd be so far ahead now. By now we should have an affordable, extremely efficient DAW that anyone can easily use but instead it's better to go almost totally back into dedicated hardware and run a simple computer set up just for multi tracking as a necessary evil. I believe Ardour is actually the only really viable one due to it's simplicity but the lack of donations is pathetic. Most of the other DAWs are absolute bloat.

[Grooveschmied]

I know there are people here making a concerted effort to sort stuff on Linux and I have been using Linux for a long time but I'm being forced off the Platform almost completely so what chance have new users got? [...]

You didn't get it, didn't you?. Read Soppels comment again and please stopp it. This is not the right place to blame Linux or even an application. Stay or leave. Its your decision, but please do not tell names right here.

[efflux]

I have left - Linux. I've been using it for a long long time but it's defunct for audio now. The wisest decision made was Ardour and Mixbus on OSX because that's the only future for Ardour, at least until the masses of problems get sorted.

[GMaq]

I have left - Linux. I've been using it for a long long time but it's defunct for audio now.

To rephrase properly:

I have left - Linux. I've been using it for a long long time but it's defunct for audio now for me

If you have left Linux that is your prerogative and I sincerely wish you the best on whatever platform you migrate to, however since you have left I'd appreciate no further inflammatory comments in this thread which was quite dead for several weeks, you are entitled to your opinion and you've made it quite clear throughout this thread, we get it!